Arizona Gov. Katie Hobbs talks ESA oversight, ‘stupid hiker’ law and more

Gov. Hobbs joined Outspoken with Bruce and Gaydos to say what makes her "outraged" about ESAs and much more.

Jul 29, 2025, 8:45 PM Updated: Jul 30, 2025, 11:39 am

Watch: Gov. Katie Hobbs talks President Trump's new executive order, state's ESA program issues and more | 15 mins

PHOENIX — Gov. Katie Hobbs discussed what makes her “outraged” about Empowerment Scholarship Accounts (ESAs), if the state needs a “stupid hiker law” and more during her exclusive biweekly appearance on KTAR News 92.3 FM’s Outspoken with Bruce & Gaydos.

Much of the discussion during the governor’s time in-studio focused on ESAs, which Hobbs has called a “billion-dollar boondoggle” due to the funds from the school voucher program being spent on items such as a $16,000 cello and a Rolex watch.

Hobbs explains what makes her ‘outraged’ about ESAs

Hobbs was asked why the state budget, which was approved in late June, did not include any additional funds to help review what ESA funds are being spent on.

“I’m all for considering a proposal that would bring more accountability to the program. But there wasn’t a proposal that did that,” Hobbs said. “So, if we just spend more money to continue the same practices that are happening right now, you’re just putting lipstick on a pig.”

Currently, there are just 12 state employees who review ESA purchases. If more employees were to be added, that would have to be done by Arizona Superintendent of Public Instruction Tom Horne, who is not interested, according to Hobbs.

“If he wanted to make more accountability in the program, he could have asked for those staff,” Hobbs said. “He could have fought for them. He’s not interested in doing that and the legislature also rejected requirements that would require reviews of all the expenses.”

Horne has previously said that his department will not review any ESA purchases under $2,000. Hobbs believes that is a dangerous precedent to set.

“This is the problem, right? The legislature, when they expanded this program, they didn’t put guardrails, and they didn’t give funding to put more oversight, and this is what’s been happening,” Hobbs said. “So it’s like we’re just throwing up our hands and saying it’s okay, go get a bounce house with it or ski passes or whatever.”

Another issue that Hobbs has with ESAs is that some parents are not spending the money and are instead saving it, even though the funds are meant to be spent during students’ elementary, middle or high school years.

However, Hobbs said there isn’t much she or the state legislature can do about it.

“There is nothing; there is no provision to claw back unused funds,” Hobbs said. “And I’m outraged by it. I think that this flies in the face of what we should be doing with dollars to fund choice for all students across the state.”

.@GovernorHobbs joined @TheBruceStJames & @GaydosKTAR in studio for their exclusive Talk to the Governor interview.

Gaydos asked Governor Hobbs if the new state budget should have included new money to review Empowerment Scholarship Account program spending. pic.twitter.com/a3x7JrYI8c

— Outspoken with Bruce & Gaydos on KTAR News 92.3 (@OutspokenKTAR) July 30, 2025

Hobbs on whether a ‘stupid hiker’ law is needed in Arizona

Headlines have been made all summer for hikers being rescued off of Valley mountains after going out in the heat.

This includes a hiker who was rescued off of Camelback Mountain last weekend and a family of 11 hikers who were rescued off of South Mountain in late June.

U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services Robert F. Kennedy Jr. also posted a photo on X after hiking Camelback while wearing jeans.

Hobbs said she doesn’t understand why people are putting themselves in harm’s way by going hiking when it is more than 100 degrees outside.

“Look, I am an avid hiker,” Hobbs said. “I would never hike in the middle of the day in Phoenix in the summer. I would never hike in jeans. Honestly, I would never do a hike without doing a lot of research into how difficult is it? What do I need to have to make sure I’m prepared? And knowing my skill level and what I’m equipped to handle, people need to take personal responsibility.”

This has led to the thought of a “stupid hiker” law being needed in Arizona, like the state has for drivers who drive into floodwaters. However, Hobbs does not believe it is the state’s responsibility to manage city-owned trails, such as those on Camelback and South Mountain, which are owned by the city of Phoenix.

“I’m sure that Phoenix City Council and other areas where they’re dealing with these are going to have the conversations,” Hobbs said. “And I know that, if you go to Camelback, there’s warning signs. I don’t know how the trail closure is marked, but they don’t have staff there. And that’s another funding issue. Like, how do you pay for the staff if you need staff there to keep people off the trail when it’s closed?”

Hobbs on homeless crackdown executive order

The governor also discussed a new executive order from President Donald Trump that calls for federal agencies to make it easier to move unhoused people from the streets into shelters in cities such as Phoenix.

Hobbs called the order, which was signed on July 24, “very concerning,” and said her office is still going through it to see exactly what it means and how it will impact Arizona.

How does Arizona Gov. Katie Hobbs see President Trump's homeless crackdown executive order playing out in Arizona?

She discussed that during the exclusive Talk to the Governor segment on @OutspokenKTAR.

Full interview: https://t.co/GbuckCosuU pic.twitter.com/tOv8cX7ve9

— KTAR News 92.3 (@KTAR923) July 30, 2025

This issue also strikes a chord for Hobbs, who started her career as a social worker working with unhoused people.

“I know firsthand that it is a very complex problem and we cannot solve the problem by forcefully institutionalizing everyone who is dealing with homelessness,” Hobbs said. “Number one, we don’t have space to do that anywhere. It is as expensive to do that as it would be to treat the issues … And so the bottom line is that regardless of the issues that people have that they end up homeless, the common denominator is that there’s a lack of housing that they can afford.

“And so how do we fix that? And I don’t think we can institutionalize our way out of this … but we have to really collaborate and work together to increase the treatment we have for folks that are dealing with substance use or mental health issues.”